Rep. Kestell Question and Answer

Tonight I attended a Q and A session with WI State representative Steve Kestell. This was hosted by the Sheboygan GOP. I had planned to take video and post it here as I have done for similar Q and A sessions with WI State Senator Joe Leibham, but after the first minute, I was asked to turn off the camera and told I could not take video .. at a free event that was advertised in the paper as being open to the public, where a legislator was speaking.

After the event, I asked Mr. Kestell if he had any objection to my posting the small snippet of video I took on my blog and he said go right ahead, that's fine, I have no objections", as I rather suspected that he would. So here is the video:

This is only about 2 minutes long and I will attempt to write from my own notes what was said during the rest of the session, but be aware, please that these are my interpretation of what was said with all of my own biases and limitations. (I can only write so fast, even if I am a compulsive note taker - one of the reasons I wanted to video the  session.) I did turn off my camera at the request, because I am a polite person, not because I was legally required to do so.

Before I go on to detail the rest of the session, let me say how very disappointed I am with the Sheboygan GOP. One of the myriad reasons I despise the Obama administration is because of the way he treats those who he considers hostile to his agenda - even going so far as to forbid phones along with all other recording devices at his speeches. This is so that he may control the message that gets out. Many do not know this, but the Obama administration requires the right to edit any interviews or etc before airtime/going to print if a reporter wants access. That is a blatant violation of the freedom of the press, but the press has, by and large, accepted the restrictions. (Shame on them.) I do not consider myself to be a reporter, just a blogger, but I have the same freedoms. This was a public event and the GOP, who tries so hard to reassure conservatives that they are different, that they respect our freedoms and want to maintain them, told me to turn my camera off.  That's a fail folks.

Now, on to the meat of the Q and A. My own comments are in italics. 
After the budget question Mr. Kestell also noted that the Wisconsin legislature has not done a good job, historically, of looking down the road with regard to the budget.

Q Is WI accepting federal funding for the implementation of common core, with the addendum that the questioner would prefer the budget surplus to be sent to DC if it could "buy" us out of federal interference with our educational system.

A. Mr. Kestell said it is his dream for WI to divorce ourselves from the federal level entirely in the area of education. He said it would take about 2 billion dollars per school year to do that at this point. He also noted that even at that, federal funding for education only supplies less than 10% of our educational budget here in WI and that it isn't worth the price we have to pay for it. There are too many strings attached and the feds have too much control of our educational system.

 Mr.. Kestell further noted that we can't change our educational system here in the blink of an eye, that it would take planning and study. (I both agree and disagree on this one. Technically we could change it in the blink of an eye, but it is probably better to do such a thing gradually if we can.)

Q There was an inquiry made as to whether or not the current state Sec of Ed is able to distribute the federal money as he sees fit(with implications of cronyism).

A. Mr. Kestell said the Sec of Ed does not control the purse strings, the legislature does. The awarding of grant money is subjective, but there isn't any leeway otherwise as to how that money is to be spent. He allowed as how the current Sec of Ed had issues with the degree of authority he wields within the system, but the State Constitution outranks him.

Q. Are there any other states out there taking the lead in getting their educational systems off of the federal teat?

A. No. And Mr. Kestell was disappointed that such a thing was so.(In my estimation)

Q How did the Sec of Ed become an elected office rather than being appointed by the governor?

A It is required by the WI State Constitution. Mr. Kestell also referenced a 1996 court decision.

Q What about the counties who don't want to comply with state mandates - particularly unfunded ones?

A. Mr. Kestell sympathized with local units of government and said the solution is to have as little government as we can. He mentioned the major local expenses like law enforcement, and then referenced a number of court cases with which I was unable to write fast enough to keep up. :(

Q Is there federal pressure in the form of funding for the state to adopt the common core curriculum?

A No. (Bear with me here as I am not as up to speed as I should be.) Mr. Kestell said that when Mr. Bush implemented No Child Left Behind, it was the largest expansion of the federal government into education since Mr. carter was president. That, in order for a state to receive waivers for the requirements of NCLB, we had to implement the WKCE testing and the school report card system. Common core is just a set of standards that can be also be used to waive NCLB requirements. That the districts in WI are free to do whatever they like for curriculum, that there are suggested curriculum materials that go along with the common core standards, but which our school districts are free to ignore. Mr. Kestell expressed the opinion that NCLB did some good in waking some people up to the fact that schools were not doing such a good job, but that it was the wrong way to go about it.

As I am understanding this, the point of common core is to establish a set of standards - i.e. a child in kindergarten shall be able to do thus and such, (Know their alphabet and count to 20 was what I was told 20 years ago, which I found an appalling standard for kindergarten. In my opinion you could teach a child that in 2 weeks or less.Clearly we can do better than that.) The idea is that a high school diploma in Alaska should mean the same thing as a high school diploma in Arkansas or Wisconsin or Texas, which is not a bad thing. The problem comes when those who have an agenda try to twist such a basic goal to serve their own ends.

Q. We should have expectations of the school at the local level, so why shouldn't the standards be set at the local level. ( I would argue that they are, since parents are supposed to be attending curriculum and other school board meetings. If we choose not to do so, our children will reap the rewards of that choice and have been.)

A. The majority is not paid for locally and Constitutionally, the state is responsible for public education. (That does not mean that the state is responsible for educating our children, merely that the state is responsible to provide the option of public education to the parents of the state as they are deciding how to meet their right, responsibility and duty to direct the education of their children.)

Q. This was a question regarding standards that didn't make logical sense to me, so I was flummoxed about how to write it down.

A. Standards testing is to show how kids are doing, not for the sake of testing. (to get federal funding or a waiver of NCLB requirements is my assumption of how Mr. Kestell meant that.) To that end, the WKCE is being replaced.

At this juncture there were quite a few comments about the MKE school system - most negative. Voices were being raised and many started trying to remind each other to be calm and keep it polite.  It is my own opinion, that we need to work with people where they are and not where we think they "should" be. Reality trumps idealism, so let's deal in reality both where it comes to the education unions and parents in Milwaukee.

Mr. Kestell said: "A high school diploma should mean something".

Q There was a comment saying that we need to give teachers back the tools they need to enforce discipline in their classes.

A Mr. Kestell said that WI has a suspect teacher preparation program.  He continued to say that after the Act 10 stuff was settled, Gov Walker came to the education committee to ask what could be done to improve reading performance. They brought in a number of people to ask about this, including a number of teachers. The teachers told them that the DPI made it easier for elementary school teachers to become certified. (I wondered at this point if that was due to a shortage of teachers we had in WI about a decade ago. As I recall , the standards were lowered in order to encourage more people to become teachers so we would have enough, but I didn't get the opportunity to ask as the meeting was moving pretty quickly.)
In response to this, they looked around the nation to see what was being done in this area. Florida and Massachusetts had a system test which they allowed us to use for free to see that teachers are properly prepared.

Q What can we do about kids who take over classes and waste class time with unruly behavior?

A. Mr. Kestell acknowledged the problem and said it has now been made worse by the federal directive to discipline children differently according to their race. He doesn't have a solution and schools are in a tough spot.

Q There was a question about the federal government's apparent intent to collect data on us from the cradle to the grave.

A We should be worried about that. The data collected on our kids under NCLB and under the waivers to NCLB currently dictates that there are to be no personal identifiers in the data once it leaves the school district. For groups under 20 (voucher schools and some private schools), no data may be collected because it is deemed to be statistically insignificant. Mr. Kestell referenced the Pridemore legislation (I haven't heard of this)

Q. Who governs the content of the data collections?

A. All the data is related to student performance.

Q. I have seen some forms that are asking an intrusive amount of information.

A. There are all sorts of forms that have snuck in over the years. Mr. Kestell recommended answering none of your business to any intrusive questions or simply not answering.

Q. There was a question about SIS (Student Information Services) testing costs.

A. If the state requires it, in general the state has to pay for it. He also noted that the ACT will now be a state required test. (One of those replacing the WKCE) He said that since 60% of WI students were taking the ACT anyway, the legislature decided they may as well use that instead of having them subjected to another test. This means the state will now be paying for ACT testing. 

Q. There was a question asking if the deterioration of discipline could be linked to the mainstreaming of special needs students.

A. Mr. Kestell referred to Lightfoot school(a school I do not have sufficient history in this area to know about) and noted that it worked. Then he said that there were some court decisions in the 80's that said that all students must be given the least restrictive environment possible and that this is what drove and is driving the mainstreaming of special needs individuals. He said that there is such a spectrum of possible special needs that it is very difficult to find a solution.

Q. The referenced the many broken promises of the federal government (such as "If you like your health care, you can keep it") and asked how are we to keep the federal government from becoming more intrusive with regard to data collection?

A. Mr. Kestell would like to see a "trigger" put in place in WI, so that if the federal governments starts demanding more intrusive information, the trigger would be pulled and WI would refuse to give it.
 Mr. Kestell also reiterated his concerns about the potential costs of school choice. His concern is that the cost of public education as it currently exists will not decrease even though 5% of the students opted for school choice. Then we would be paying for the current system as well as, for the sake of argument I term it, another system.

I apologize for any errors or omissions, but, as noted above, I can only write so fast and I was asked to turn my camera off. At a Q and A session with a state legislator. That was open to the public. By a member of the local GOP.


"⁶ Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;
⁷ Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;
⁸ Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness."~ Romans 12:6-8

A Visit to the Capital - Let's Move Forward

I had the opportunity to visit the capital last week and I have a few photos to share along with some notes about the changes I noticed from when I was down for the TEA parties the last few years and now, in (What I sincerely hope is) the aftermath of these protests. The first thing I noticed is that there were more people than usual walking around outside the building itself. Many were carrying signs and stopping to engage in conversations with those they met as they were walking. Then I crossed the street and saw my first annoying thing. The sidewalks were covered with anti Walker, anti budget repair bill and pro-union graffiti. (Thankfully in chalk, at least I'm pretty sure most of the ones I saw were in chalk.)Perhaps that why the lawns were so torn up, people must have been attempting not to smudge the artwork of their fellow protesters. Yes, I'm sure that must be it, after all, what's a few million in sod and landscaping costs compared to chalk drawings on the sidewalk reviling our legislators?

Next was a man with a bullhorn walking around and around the capital building. His comments, at that time were addressed to Governor Walker, asking him to come out and speak to the people. (As I left after my visit, his tone had changed, he was taunting the governor, calling him a coward and saying:"Hey, why don't you hold your breath for 25 minutes?" Must be some of that new civility stuff.)

Then, it was time to find which door was open. (Another change, as during and after the TEA party rallies and pretty much for all of my life, the capital has been open to the people to come and go at will through all the doors during normal hours.) As I entered, it seemed much darker than I remembered it. and then there was the next shock, a metal detector with a table and bins for all pocket contents. Okay, a reasonable precaution given the death threats to our legislators, I went through it, it wasn't a virtual strip search machine after all. The beeper went off. After a thorough search of an otherwise empty, but deep pocket and three more beeping scan results from the wand, I found the errant penny and was allowed to pass into the capital building itself.

The hallway seemed unusually dim as did the rotunda chamber. All the usual lights appeared to be on and it was a sunny day, yet the hallways branching off the rotunda seemed dark and forbidding. Most with velvet ropes across them, not truly blocking, but definitely giving the impression that people weren't welcome to go that way. The capital has always been a rather solemn place for me to visit, but not like this. I don't know if it was some adjustments to the regular lighting, the obvious police presence throughout the building, the attitude of the other people inside the building or what, but it seemed very forbidding and dark, not at all like the capital I was used to. In the center of the rotunda chamber there were people laying out fliers in a circle as though someone on one of the other floors would be photographing them even though I was informed that the upper levels were closed to visitors at this time. As I looked around for the hallway leading to Representative Kestell's office, I saw a man sitting on the floor chatting cheerfully with the woman beside him. At his side was a sign saying he was on a hunger strike until the bill was thrown out or something. It said he was on day 11. He seemed awfully cheerful for someone who had gone without food for 11 days, but I often feel better when I'm fasting, so maybe he does too. In any case, I don't think that's going to work, since I hadn't seen or heard anything about someone on a hunger strike at all. I found Rep. Kestell's office fairly quickly and was greeted by Sara Mikolajczak, one of Rep. Kestell's staffers. I had been running late, so I had the opportunity to chat with this delightful young woman for a few minutes while Rep. Kestell finished up a meeting. She was able to confirm many of the more disturbing things I had heard about or read about the protest. (Things like the smell, the noise, the overall nastiness of the protesters towards anyone on the opposing side.) She showed me the budget and said that they expected it to get just as bad when the time for the vote on that comes around. We talked about the difficulty of removing the signs and tape from the many different, old and rare types of marble used in the capital building. Then I was able to see Rep. Kestell. I asked how he was doing and whether or not he was rethinking his career in public service. He said that he didn't think there was a single legislator on either side of the debate that hadn't been wondering if they really wanted to have this job after watching the behavior of these protesters over the past weeks. In my opinion, that is one of the biggest challenges that has come out of all this. How can we get good people to run for and hold office if the citizens are going to behave like spoiled little brats when they don't get their own way? When former Governor Doyle was in office, and doing some really egregious things, conservatives did not come and tear up the capital. Conservative citizens and legislators did not attempt to hold the entire state hostage. We did the right thing. The people contacted their legislators, expressed their opinions and voted in the next election. Conservative legislators held their noses and voted against horrible bills that they knew would pass anyway because that was their job. That is the way it is supposed to work. No disrupting offices with constant drumming, no pounding on doors and windows and certainly no spitting on those who have been elected to serve us. That is not how a REPUBLIC works. but then, perhaps the protesters can be forgiven, since they clearly believe we live, not in a republic, but in a democracy-poor things. Perhaps they'll learn some manners when they become informed about the difference between the two and why a republic is better. Then we talked about the fiscal issues facing the state. Rep. Kestell expressed great respect for the budget office, saying that the head of it treats having accurate numbers almost as a religion. This man will not fudge the numbers for anyone and he has been trying to get the legislature to cut spending for a number of years now with no luck. Now we are at the tipping point and all the hard decisions have to be made now, because no one was willing to make any of them earlier. He expressed a confidence that both the budget repair bill and the budget, while cutting a number of things that people will not like, are the right thing to do to get WI into a place from which we can start addressing some of the more serious and larger issues that face us. State Sovereignty education and health care came up as a few of those areas.

He then urged me to share the facts with people. Because we cannot continue to spend like we have been and no amount of protesting will make money fall from the sky. Nor will any amount of protesting about fiscal realities relieve us of the burdens placed on our economy by the hoops we are jumping through to get money from Washington.

The bottom line is that many of the demands placed on us, as a state, by Washington are costly and ineffective. In other words, my grandmother was right when she used to say that government money always costs you more than you get. The feds give us money(our own money) for our schools and other things - as long as we jump through their hoops and don't squawk about how much of the money that we could have had for our schools is going, instead, to the layers and layers of bureaucrats who spend their time thinking up ways to prevent us from getting more of our own money to put towards our schools. (And this, when the federal government has no Constitutional authority to have anything to do with the education of our children. That is supposed to be left to the state and local levels.)

After thanking Rep. Kestell and his staffers, I went to see Sen. Leibham, but he wasn't in. So I left a note on the sign in sheet and thanked his staffers for their service. Then I went to visit Sen. Grothman. Now Sen. Grothman is not from my district, but I felt so bad upon viewing the video of him being mobbed that I felt I must visit him and thank him for his service, particularly. Sen Grothman has been a staunch supporter of conservative values, fiscal responsibility and Constitutional government for many years and he deserved better from the citizens of WI than to be mobbed like that. Public sector union members aren't all thugs(Although, I now think a goodly number more than I would have ever credited before this protest began are very badly behaved indeed.)and the taxpayers are not robber barons out to enslave the "poor little union workers. (Who are apparently unable to stand up to their employers without unions-although they can take days off from work and engage in medical fraud and other less savory activities to defend their wish to have someone else to do it for them.How does that work?) I think it's time for us to remember that we are all in this together. "We must hang together or we will assuredly hang separately" if we cannot get our state back onto solid fiscal ground. If we can do this, then we can assert ourselves as a state and really make the changes that need to be made to make our state what it needs to be as our federal government runs amok and courts hyperinflation and ruin. Let's get our own house in order and then go after Washington. Because it's not about who's in the oval office or the legislature so much as it is about sustaining our nation. The time for hard decisions is now. Let's make them and move forward. That is our state motto as embodied by the statue of Lady Forward on the top of our capital building is it not?

"And the LORD said unto Moses, Wherefore criest thou unto me? speak unto the children of Israel, that they go forward: But lift thou up thy rod, and stretch out thine hand over the sea, and divide it: and the children of Israel shall go on dry ground through the midst of the sea."~ Exodus 14:15-16

It Depends on Where You Are When You Ask...

That's what I said when I was asked how people in Wisconsin really feel about Scott Walker and what he's doing with the budget.

I said that because, as former governor Lee Dreyfus once said, Madison is "68 square miles surrounded by reality." So, the opinions of the people in Madison, or even Milwaukee, are not necessarily reflective of the opinions of the people in the rest of the state. (No, as a matter of fact, the rest of us do NOT want to pay for your train-you want it-you pony up the money yourself.)

I know that there are polls showing increasing disapproval of Gov. Walker and I thought those polls were in need of some balance. I saw a billboard that pretty well sums up the attitude of many up here in Kestell country. (I wouldn't presume to say everyone-because the teachers union members and their compatriots up here clearly-if you read my other posts- oppose him.)

So in the interest of balance, here is the billboard. Enjoy.

At least that's the post I was working on when I heard the Governor Walker had decided to compromise. So, who is representing the taxpayers in those contracts now? Congratulations, you've just taught the communists that they don't have to play by the rules.

I am disgusted. Texas, Oklahoma and Utah are beginning to look good. ( I would pick Alaska, myself, but my husband thinks it's too cold here.)

I feel betrayed. But maybe I'm jumping the gun here. I'll be calling my legislators and the governor's office tomorrow. I hope this is just a reporter, hoping for a scoop, behaving badly with privileged information.

Update: This morning,(3/9/2011) I called the governor's office to ask about reports of compromise on the part of Governor Walker. Tristan(an aide I assume) informed me, that, as far as he knows, the governor has no intention of compromising. I expressed my approval and asked that he relay my message of absolutely no compromise to Governor Walker. If we allow this sort of shenanigan to prevail, then we have no business calling ourselves a republic. Giving in to "pay for play" democrats who refuse to do their jobs and union thugs from across the country would be anathema to the vision of our founders and the continued existence of our status as a sovereign state.

If I went to work one day and found that my employer wanted me to do the most disagreeable job at the business, would I be justified in throwing a hissy fit, walking off the job-while still insisting that I be paid- and having my union send in people to vandalize the business and harass the other employees who are trying to do their jobs? Of course not. I should be fired for such behavior. And the union should be disbanded or heavily penalized. And yet, that is exactly what these 14 Senators have done. Add in that they have accepted rather a lot of union money to get elected and the true picture becomes even clearer. I say Illinois can have them. They should resign if they are not willing to represent their constituents above their campaign donors.


"When they have a matter, they come unto me; and I judge between one and another, and I do make them know the statutes of God, and his laws.

"And Moses' father in law said unto him, The thing that thou doest is not good.

Thou wilt surely wear away, both thou, and this people that is with thee: for this thing is too heavy for thee; thou art not able to perform it thyself alone.

Hearken now unto my voice, I will give thee counsel, and God shall be with thee: Be thou for the people to God-ward, that thou mayest bring the causes unto God:

And thou shalt teach them ordinances and laws, and shalt shew them the way wherein they must walk, and the work that they must do.

Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place such over them, to be rulers of thousands, and rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens: "~ Exodus 18:16-21